What gets int he way of us really listening? I'll break down what I consider to be the "Top 10" barriers to effective listening, as outlined in "You're Not listening" by Kate Murphy (2020).
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Hi, everyone, Doctor Lazzarini here today to give you some
more insight about attending specifically the things that get in
the way of us doing it effectively.
And we're all guilty of this because we're human and
the way that we have been kind of socialized to
interact. It's easy to encounter these barriers, so I am
betting that they seem familiar to you, not just from
the videos you've done so far for our class, but
just in your everyday interactions.
So I found a really great book called You're Not
Listening by Kate Murphy.
And in this book she interviews individuals from all walks
of life who are expert listeners, truly effective at creating
connection. And they are from all different fields, occupations, life
experiences, everyone from bartenders, two hairstylists, two CIA agents and
operatives. So we're getting a wealth of experience from a
very diverse, um, interview pool.
So in her book, she talks about many of the
barriers, and I've called it down to the top 10
that I think apply to us, and that may be
relevant to me.
But again, the top 10 barriers to effective attending.
And I know we've talked about this but I think
it bears repeating.
Why is listening and attending so important?
Because when were truly listening to somebody and really attending
to their experience, it sparks interest in us.
It sparks our creativity, our intuition, insight, knowledge, all those
things for us as well as for our clients.
So effective.
Attending truly getting into someone else's experience is extremely valuable,
and going back to one of our previous units.
Where we talk about the kind of the biology are
the neurobiology of listening and all these counseling skills we
talk about.
It's also really an opportunity for us to truly get
on the same wavelength as someone else.
Our brain waves can become in sync with the other
when we are really listening, really attending.
So I hope that sells you on why this is
so important.
But if it doesn't, let's talk about the barriers now
and see if you can't relate to them and see
why they can get in the way.
So much inauthenticity.
So if you're acting as if you're attending or listening,
you really aren't and that comes across it gets in
the way of again those brain waves being on the
same wavelength of really getting into the other person's experience.
Um, that's not going to happen if you're simply acting
as if you're paying attention.
And the best way to avoid that is to actually
pay attention.
I know, Easier said than done our second barrier thinking
about how the conversation will go.
I know again, Easier said than done, especially early in
our career.
I'm sure some of you can relate to this, even
from the video that you did of wondering, How is
this going to go?
What are they going to talk about today?
Can I handle it?
All of those things are going to take us out
of really listening and remaining open and curious to what
the other person is saying.
And those are ingredients that are really important to really
listening and again attending, uh, anxiety.
I'm sure you thought it was going to make the
list or if you didn't make sense right of anxiety,
definitely gets in the way of us really listening to
the other person that could be again, like I just
mentioned anxiety of What are they going to talk about?
Can I handle this?
Um, when you think about anxiety not just in session
or in relationship to another person.
When you think about your anxiety about anything, it really
doesn't take us to good places, does it?
It's We're picturing worst case scenarios what if usually distorted
beliefs about something So our anxiety fills in the gaps
with almost like that worst case scenario information.
So when you're thinking about listening to somebody, if you're
anxious, you're not really going to be connected to them.
It's just not possible.
I remember one of my first sessions where I was
so worried about how it was going to go with
this client after reading the intake paperwork that I really
didn't listen.
I think the whole session was about me trying to
tamp down the anxiety that was going on in my
head, and every once in a while I would kind
of surface and hear a snippet of what the client
was saying.
But by no means was I really listening, and it
really did not create report with that client.
And, um, it felt like a true disaster to me,
and I think to the client as well.
So even though I didn't you know, I was a
novice counselor at that point, if I had been able
to put that anxiety, um, kind of contain it a
bit better.
I'm sure that session would have been more successful, at
least in building that report.
Mhm. Now, number four, this is about the client.
So not so much about what we're bringing in now,
but also about the client.
So we can have a client that gives us so
much information.
Too much information to process.
We can wonder why is this client even telling us
this? What does this have to do with anything?
You know, I've given examples of the kind of everyday
things clients might spend a good 15 20 minutes of
the session talking about shoe shopping, whatnot that really don't
pertain to getting the work done and counseling.
So when a client is giving you all of this
information, Kate Mara Murphy, who wrote this book, talks about
being the detective.
So when a client is giving us all this information,
we really need to ask ourselves Why is this person
telling me this?
You know why now?
Why are they even sharing this?
We have to understand also that sometimes the client may
not know why they're sharing it.
So it's our job to really be the detective as
well, instead of dismissing it, you know, sometimes the extraneous
extra information too much information does have valuable information, especially
sometimes when we look for the connection between lots of
those pieces of information, a theme or pattern may develop.
That gives us some more insight and can also help
the client get some more insight.
So don't dismiss all the t.
M I.
There might be some valuable information or insight in there,
but yes, it gets in the way of us really
listening when we feel like we're being bombarded with so
much information and it doesn't feel, you know, overtly relevant
number five false assumptions.
We all like ordering consistency, which is why this last
year has been so hard for all of us.
There hasn't been any order inconsistency, or it's been very
hard to find so out of that need for order
and consistency.
We jump to assumptions to make sense of things, and
it turns out we're really bad at that.
Um, we have a tendency to make really bad assumptions
and what's even more troubling is, we tend to think
we don't do that, but other people do that.
So we are really good at hypothesizing or maybe even
identifying in others false assumptions they've made.
But we have a real blind spot to our own.
It's kind of like, you know, they're really bad at
that, but I'm pretty insightful.
I I don't jump to assumptions, but it turns out
we're just as guilty as others.
So our blind spot of our own tendency to do
that is something that we need to be aware of.
So something to keep in mind.
Number six something called the Speech Thought Differential, and Murphy
mentions this as something that happens to a lot of
us simply because we think faster than someone is talking.
And because of that, we're not going at the same
speed, and we have time in our minds to kind
of wander, and it results in what she calls mental
side trips so we can find ourselves off somewhere, coming
back to when the client is speaking and having missed
something because we have taken one of those mental side
trips. And the problem with this, she mentions, is also
that it makes us, you know, when we're doing that,
we're really wondering about our own experiences, everything and kind
of our own concerns.
And it takes us out of, ideally the wonder and
concern we have for the other person, which is what
leads to really effective listening, as we mentioned, you know,
we talked about at the beginning of this of when
we're really listening.
That sparks wonder and curiosity.
And that's not going to happen when we're on those
mental side trips because seven.
So you're on that mental side trip.
What happens when you come back?
You're filling in the gaps.
You're trying to figure out what happened while I was
away. And you're taking your cues from the other person.
Do they look excited?
Sad? What What just happened?
How should I be feeling based upon how they seem
to be feeling or what they're talking about based upon?
When I left when I returned, um, what what was
going on when I left and what's going on now?
And how can I make sense of what happened in
between? Guess what.
We're really bad at that, too.
So again, when returning from mental side trips, we often
unconsciously and incorrectly fill in those gaps.
Number eight for all my Smarties out there, uh, this
is one of the cons, I guess, of being smart
as Murphy talks about, which is when we are really
intelligent or smart.
We tend to be more prone to something such as
those mental side trips, and we also tend to worry
more and and that goes back to anxiety.
So we're really conscious about our performance and wanting to
do well, so we're more prone to worry.
And we're also more likely to get caught up in
that differential again and think that we know what that
other person has said and were even worse at filling
in the gaps.
So being smart is, uh, something that we want.
We want to encourage you to be smart and to
celebrate that, but just being aware of how prone we
are to some of these barriers to truly listening.
And Murphy says that smart people are often worse listeners
because they come up with more extra stuff to think
about, and that leads us to those side trips.
And again we tend to be confident, assuming that we
even know what the other person is going to say,
uh, this is something I'm really guilty of and something
that I've been working on for the past six months
or so since I I read this book, which is
I am an interrupter.
I think it shows people that I'm really listening and
understanding them if I finish their sentences.
Uh, clearly, that was a blind spot until I read
this book and realized that probably people aren't appreciating that
and that it is actually getting in the way of
them feeling like they're able to share their story and
I'm with them.
So if you're one of those people who finishes other
people's sentences because you want to show just how much
you know and know about them um, be careful about
that. Okay?
Number nine introversion.
I am more on the side of introvert than I
am extroverts.
So this is something that I I catch myself, especially
when I was working full time in a clinical capacity
the end of the day, feeling really depleted because as
an introvert, you have so much already going on internally
in your head that a lot of mental energy is
taking place there.
So imagine now taking on, you know, trying to really
listen to someone and stay present.
Um, you're more.
You know, those side trips can happen more because there's
already so much stuff going on in there and we
reached saturation sooner of the energy it takes to really
be with someone else and holds all of what they're
giving us in and the energy from them.
We can reach saturation a little bit sooner.
It's hard for us to make room for all that
extra input.
And last but certainly not least drama Roll number 10
focusing on the right thing to say.
We want to get it right.
We want to be good counselors.
We want to be effective and we also want our
client. We want to inspire confidence in our clients so
we think about we want to say the right thing,
Murphy says.
The more you think about the right thing to say,
the more you miss and the more likely you'll be
to say the wrong thing when it's your turn.
So again it takes us out of the interaction.
When we're focusing so hard on finding the right thing
to say so when it's your turn, you want to
have not taken those mental side trips.
You want to have been with the client and able
to genuinely authentically respond.
So I hope that you found these top 10 barriers
helpful in thinking about not just your counseling relationships that
you'll be developing but your personal relationships.
So for my interrupters out there or my people who
take a lot of mental side trips, this is something
you can you can work on.
And I encourage you to maybe even just take one
to be more intentional about in the coming coming months.