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Aristophanes frogs and the sophist.

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Abbie Edwards

on 6 November 2012

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Transcript of Aristophanes frogs and the sophist.

Aristophanes' frogs and its relation to the sophist movement Socrates Details of the life of Socrates can be obtained from writing of his associates and students, Plato, Aristophanes and Xenophon. There is no proof that Socrates himself wrote anything. Most of whatever we know of him is through Plato's works like 'The Apology'. Socrates was primarily know for h
is ideas, communication skills and public teachings. Firstly, Why sophocles is NOT a Sophist (Common Misconception) First of all, sophists took money for their efforts. They charged people and claimed that their teachings would make people wiser. Socrates, on the contrary, made no money for his efforts, and he did not claim he was making anyone wiser. In fact, he claimed he was only helping them remember what their souls forgot but couldn't remember. The Sophist movement The Greek word sophos, or sophia, has had the meaning "wise" or "wisdom". The term sophist came to denote those of which would argue that people should really think for themselves and question the way in which society works and even question the existence of the gods. Socrates (469-399 B.C.) was a classical Greek philosopher who is credited with laying the fundamentals of modern Western philosophy. He is known for creating Socratic irony and the Socratic method (elenchus). He is best recognized for inventing the teaching practice of pedagogy, wherein a teacher questions a student in a manner that draws out the correct response Aristophanes' writings describe Socrates running a sophist school and getting paid for it. Xenophon and Plato disagree with this saying that Socrates did not accept any payment for his teaching, with his poverty acting as proof of this fact. In Plato's dialogues he portrays Socrates as a soldier who served in the Athenian army and fought in the battles of Potidaea, Amphipolis, and Delium. Seven complete tragedies

Oedipus Tyrannus
Oedipus at Colonus
Philoctetes Oedipus Antigone Electra In the second half of the 5th century BC, particularly at Athens, "sophist" were mostly itinerant intellectuals who taught courses in various subjects, speculated about the nature of language and culture and employed rhetoric to achieve their purposes, generally to persuade or convince others: "Sophists did, however, have one important thing in common: whatever else they did or did not claim to know, they characteristically had a great understanding of what words would entertain or impress or persuade an audience." Naturally some people were opposed to the sophist and their views on how the world works or should work as some people dislike change. This also including the playwright Aristophanes Secondly, the sophists were not loyal to any single city. They moved around from city to city. Socrates, on the other hand, always remained loyal to Athens. He did not have the need to travel abroad to practice philosophy.
Thirdly, Socrates believed in universals. The sophists, on the other hand, were relativists. Protagoras, for instance, considered man "the measure of all things". For the sophists, there is no "true" or "false", and no "right" or "wrong". It is relative to the individual. Socrates rejects this. Fourth, the sophists emphasized the PERSON who is speaking, rather than what can be said about a topic. So, while Socrates would wonder what can be said about justice, holiness, or wisdom, the sophists would take their own authority (or the authority of a great poet) over the words of a common man like Socrates. The sophists genuinely believed they were among the wisest and that they were able to teach others to be wise as well.

Fifth, consider the role knowledge plays for the sophists. For the sophists, knowledge is a means to power and is to be used for political gain. For Socrates, knowledge and wisdom are to be attained for personal growth and to bring one's soul closer to the truth. Plato How the chorus of frogs have relation to the sophist. Brekekekex, koax, koax,
Brekekekex, koax, koax! We sing as we swim,
And our voices are known This could be perceived as to represent the constant "chatter" which occurred due to such ideas being passed around. The sophist movement was growing and their "voices are known" Dionysus :
What a sweat! I'm all wet! What a bore!
I'm so raw! I'm so sore! And what's more
There are blisters here -
All over my rear -
Where I've never had blisters before. This response to the frogs can be related to commenting on the Sophist movement as the play maybe trying to demonstrate about how much a 'Pain in the ass' the Frogs are. And how they bore the good. What could these quotes mean? "What silence our chorus? Oh no!" Bubbled out loud and clear for all men to hear "Then we'll burp all the more,
twice as loud as before" Could the frogs represent the Sophist?! Hidden ideas in favor of the Sophist (On the side of Euripedes) "But i soon got her weight down with a diet of particles
and a little finely chopped logic and sprinkling of chatter juice
freshly squeezed from books" (On Tragedy) "It was democracy in action" "And then, you see, i taught these people to talk"

"teach the audience to use its brains, introduce a bit of logic into the drama"

"Whereas before Euripedes came along they just sat there blankly"

"I taught them to observe, to discern, to interpret; to use spin, to massage facts to suspect the worst, to take nothing at face value." (On influencing the audience) Hidden ideas against the Sophist (On the side of Aeschylus) "School boys have a master to teach them, adults have poets. We have a duty to see that what we teach them is right and proper" "And look how you've encoraged people to babble"

"Off to these notorious establishments where they practice the art of debating - and that's not all they practice either" "I must say I rather enjoyed the old silent days. " Euripides : "What about persuasion Doesn't that carry any weight? So beautifully phrased too."

Dionysus: "No, persuasion is hollow, It has no substance of its own" "So it's not smart to sit and chat
With Socrates, tossing aside
Artistic merit, shedding all
That's best of the tragedians art.
To fritter away one's time
On quibbling and pretentious talk
And other such inane pursuits,
Is truly the mark of a fool." "Trim your sails
This is turning out to be a storm in an oil flask!"
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