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Nagasena Bhiksu Sutra
Conversation with King Menander
Nagasena Bhiksu Sutra
Translated by Venerable Guang Xing, Ph.D.
Meeting
King
Menander
Then the king asked Nagasena, “Revered Sir, what is your name?” Nagasena replied, “My parents gave me the name Nagasena and called me Nagasena. Sometimes they called me Sihasena, sometimes they called me Surasena, sometimes they called me Virasena. It is by all these names that people come to recognize me. People in the world are concerned with names only.”
The king asked, “Who is Nagasena?” He asked further, “Is the head Nagasena?”“No,” answered Nagasena,” the head is not Nagasena.”
“Is the eye, ear, nose, or tongue Nagasena?” asked the king.
“No,” answered Nagasena, “the eye, the ear, the nose, the tongue – all of them – are not Nagasena.”
“Is the neck, nape, shoulder, arm, leg, or hand Nagasena?” asked the king. “No, none of them is Nagasena,” answered Nagasena.
“Is the thigh or foot Nagasena?” asked the king.
“No, neither of them is Nagasena.”
Nagasena Bhiksu Sutra
Translated by Venerable Guang Xing, Ph.D.
Non-self
Nothing is
Nagasena
“Is form Nagasena?”
“No, it is not Nagasena.”
“Is feeling Nagasena?”
“No, it is not Nagasena.”
“Is perception Nagasena?”
“No, it is not Nagasena.”
“Is volition Nagasena?”
“No, it is not Nagasena.”
“Are the liver, lungs, heart, spleen, arteries, intestines or stomach Nagasena?”
“No, none of them is Nagasena.”
“Is the combination of the five – form, feeling, perception, volition, and consciousness – Nagasena?”
“No, the combination of the five is not Nagasena either.”
“But is the non-coming together of the five things five – form, feeling, perception, volition, and consciousness – Nagasena?”
“No, Great King.”
“Then, is sound or breath Nagasena? ”
And he still answered No.
“But then what is Nagasena?” asked the king.
Nagasena Bhiksu Sutra
Translated by Venerable Guang Xing, Ph.D.
Simile
of
Carriage
Then Nagasena asked about the name of carriage, “What is a carriage?
Is it the axle the carriage?”
“The axle is not the carriage,” the king said.
“Is the rim the carriage?” Nagasena asked.
“The rim is not the carriage,” the king said.
“Is the spoke... hub, shaft, yoke, framework, pole, canopy the carriage?” Nagasena asked.
“The spoke... hub, shaft, yoke, framework, pole, canopy is not the carriage,” the king said.
“Then are all these parts of the wood assembled and left aside the carriage?” Nagasena asked.
“No, Sir, all these parts put together and left aside is also not the carriage,” the king said.
“Is all these parts of the wood not assembled the carriage?” Nagasena asked.
“If all these parts of the wood are not assembled it is not the carriage,” the king said.
“Then is sound the carriage?” Nagasena asked.
“No, Sir, sound is not the carriage,” the king said.
“What is the carriage?” asked Nagasena.
Nagasena told the king, “In a the Buddhist sutras it says, ‘On account of all those pieces of wood coming together, it comes under the generally understood term, the designation ‘carriage.’ So is a human.’”
Nagasena Bhiksu Sutra
Translated by Venerable Guang Xing, Ph.D.
Non-Self
Anatma
It is on account of the coming together of all of those things:
the head, the face, the ears, the mouth, the neck, the nape, the shoulder, the arms, the bones, the flesh, the hands, the feet,
the livers, the lungs, the heart, the spleen, the kidney, the intestines, the stomach, the complexion, the voice, the breath, the feeling, the inclination, that the general term is understood.
The designation in common usage is ‘person’.”
“Excellent, excellent, Nagasena.”
Nagasena Bhiksu Sutra
Translated by Venerable Guang Xing, Ph.D.
Authority
of
Reasoning
The king asked, “Venerable Nagasena, will you discuss the doctrine with me?”
Nagasena said, “If your majesty would discuss with me as a wise man, yes, I can. But if your majesty would discuss with me as a king, no, I cannot.”
“What does it mean to ‘discuss as a wise man’?”
When the wise converses, they question one another, solve problems together, agree on and turn down a point together. Winners or losers, they know right and wrong, and they themselves know what is right and what is wrong.
That is the highest wisdom. The wise would never have anger or hate. Thus do wise men discuss.”
Nagasena Bhiksu Sutra
Translated by Venerable Guang Xing, Ph.D.
How do
Kings
Discuss?
“And how do kings debate?” asked the king.
“When a king, your majesty, discusses a matter, he speaks in an unbridled fashion. He advances a point and if anyone disagrees with him and is unwilling to do as the king wishes, then the king will punish or even kill that person. Thus your majesty, do kings discuss.”
Then the king said, “I would like to talk as a wise man (pandit), not as a king. You should not talk to me as you would talk to a king, you should talk to me as if you are talking to those sramanas, your disciples, those upasakas, or even the attendants of those sramanas. You should also not have fear and be calm in your mind. Our talk should aim at enlightening each other.”
“Excellent, your majesty,” said Nagasena.
Nagasena Bhiksu Sutra
Translated by Venerable Guang Xing, Ph.D.
Conclusion
of the Day
“Revered sir, I have a question to ask you.” said the king.
“Please ask it, Sire,” said Nagasena.
“I have asked it already, your reverence.”
“I have already answered it.”
“What was your answer?”
“O King, what was your question?”
“I have asked nothing.”
“I made no reply.”
Then the king thought to himself, “This sramana is of great wisdom and intelligence. I have just started, and have a number of points on which to question him.” Again the king thought to himself, “However, the sun will soon set. It would be better to carry on the discussion tomorrow. I shall invite Nagasena to the palace in order to have a thorough discussion.”