GODS
CAN ANY OF THE FINDINGS IN THE ILIAD BE AUTHENTICATED OR JUSTIFIED BASED ON ACTUAL HISTORICAL EVIDENCE?
Believed the Gods had a great influence on Greece and they had to please them
- Achilles reiterates that he was given a prophecy to the three men who come to convince him to return to battle;
- Gods gave them power
- Followed the God's desires
CHARACTERIZATION
>if he participated in the battle he would die young but would be heavily honoured
> if he left for Phthia he would live a long and happy life but would not be able to gain the dignity and repuration he would've as a soldier
- Prayed and sacrificed to the gods
- It was known that in Ancient Greece, oracles were one of the most visited places as the Greeks weighted in their future very heavily with their current actions
- Achilles does not accept Agamemnon's offering because it would both look bad for him and would result in him giving in to Agamemnon
- This would wound his pride by accepting that Agamemnon is higher than him, and he would have to go back on his word when he said he wasn't ever coming back to fight for the Greeks because no soldier gets the respect they deserve
- He also believes that it doesn't really matter what choice he makes, in the end its the same conclusion
POSSESSIONS
- the priests and priestesses back in Ancient times were thought to be 'portals' in which the gods spoke to the people
The Greeks believed possessions were very important
"Because it seems one gets no thanks by fighting in battle for ever and for aye. Stay at home or fight all day, you will get equal pay." (126)
- Odysseus thinks possessions will convince Achilles
- Pride was a huge thing back then as this was how they honoured one another
- Phoenix believes offerings will give Achilles honour
> When Agamemnon didn't give Achilles credit it was like he didn't appreciate what he has done for the army
CHAPTER ANALYSIS
- In this chapter Agamemnon notices that he has made a careless decision for thinking that he doesn't need Achilles
- He sends his men to go persuade him with gifts to come back to the army
DIGNITY
It is important for a man to have dignity
- He does this because he's proving that he's more powerful and a greater person than Achilles is to everyone so that they can recognize him as the leader in which Achilles can't even say no to
- Achilles keeps his dignity when he rejects the offer
- In Ancient Times it was very important for a leader to have the support of his followers and to let them believe that he was powerful and great
- Diomedes feels Greeks have lost their dignity from rejection
- Odysseus, Ajax, and Phoenix finds Achilles sitting on a rock and playing a harp
"...they found Achilles amusing himself with his harp; a beautiful thing it was, made by an artist with a silver bridge and a clear lovely tone...." (122)
SIMILARITIES TO TODAY
< these paintings and carvings proved that back in Ancient Greece, although their instruments surely weren't as advanced as the ones we have today (..includes reeds), showed that harps did exist back then
GODS
- People believe gods influence their lives and they want to act in accordance with them
- Achilles still rejects but offers Phoenix to join him
- Odysseus and Ajax deliver message to Greek soldiers
- Diomedes says that they shouldn't have asked Achilles and the soldiers to rest and fight again
SETTING
- Everyone wants to be respected
GEOGRAPHICAL
- In beginning of the chapter Homer gives a short description on the locations of both armies fighting beside the sea
> where Greece is located
- Achilles welcomes his guests and offers them food and a place to stay although he is not pleased with the fact of Agamemnon not appreciating what he has done
- Also offers Phoenix for him to stay back with him, in which he agrees so that Achilles does not return to Phthia
“Welcome! I am glad to see friends…though I am an angry man." (123)
- Customary for a host to offer food and a place to stay, this is what a “good host” would do and this would help their reputation of a more caring person
- Since they're fighting on Trojan land (which borders the coastline to the Aegean Sea), Homer's description would be accurate because their travelling method was by ship so they would want to stay close for;
- Homer also reveals that the elders are more respected and when they need advice they turned to the elders because they were more experienced than they were
> eg. Agamemnon turned to Nestor’s help when he knew he was going to lose the battle.
> fear of ship thievery
> strategic access to quick escape
> easier access to resources on ship
SUMMARY
PLOT
DISCUSSION QUESTION
Do you think Achilles should have taken Agamemnon's offer in returning back to the army?Why/Why not?
Was his decision influenced more towards protecting his pride or fearing the ending he would get based on his prophecy? "
- When Zeus decides to choose the Trojan’s side over the Greeks, Agamemnon sobs on how they are set for failure, but Nestor advises him to send men to speak on his behalf. To tell Achilles he was wrong and to “win him back with gentle words and kind gifts." (121)
- Then he suggests they should have a feast, pray to Zeus for mercy, and continue their attack on Troy
- Agamemnon agrees offers many riches and women
- Sends Odysseus, Ajax, and Phoenix to propose offer
Tripods
Cauldrons
- Greeks are losing
- Agamemnon wants to return to Greece
- Diomedes wants to stay and fight
- Nestor wants to stay and suggests they bring Achilles back
Bars of Gold
Horses
Women
Briseis
SHOULD THIS BOOK BE USED AS AN ACTUAL HISTORICAL DOCUMENT?
- Filled with logical facts that make sense and bring a sense of historical pride among the population
- Feast is a meaning for celebration –for the Greeks to have hope to win the battle and have hope Zeus will be merciful toward them after they pray to him
- No because all religions and cultures have their own myths in which they believe, but each one of them always has the chance of inaccuracy due to
> the ability of the same identical story being passed down generation after generation is slim
> people may alter facts due to national pride (to make their country seem stronger and more powerful among the others)
- No concrete proof to back up the fact that people such as Achilles or events such as the Trojan War really did happen (controversial issue)
- Foundation of the Iliad is heavily still mythological based
Tripod
Cauldron
Gold Blocks
Racing Horses
- Achilles rejects because he wants to return to Phthia
- Phoenix doesn't want Achilles to leave and says that he should accept Agamemnon's offerings
- Achilles complains on how this war is being fought unfairly; it's as if Menelaus and Paris are the only two men capable of loving their wives
- He complains that he loves his wife too, even though he won her through battle
- Although Homer did have his basic facts straight, he was always known to have changed some information depending on his audience
- Agamemnon sends Odysseus, Ajax, phoenix, Odios, and Eurybates to Achilles so that they could give him the gifts and give them the message of Agamemnon being apologetic for acting hastily when not giving Achilles the credit he deserves
- They hope this will win him back and help him think this will strengthen his pride once again
- Helen went unwillingly to the Trojans
^ Towards a Greek-favoured audience
- Helen went to the Trojans on her own free will
^ Towards a Trojan-favoured audience
- This leads to different versions of the same story being told to different people, therefore causing confusion and potentially anger of some if only one version is published as the 'legitimate' historical document
- Homer did know what he was talking about, as he knew it well enough to expertly slightly change the information to what the audience would prefer to hear
"...I loved mine in my heart although my spear had won her."(126)
- It was a custom for someone to give gifts when they need to show their gratitude or they need a favor
> in this case it was both because Agamemnon need Achilles to come back to fight in the war and he need to give him the credit he deserves
Achilles sits on his chair during the taking of Briseis>
- Achilles' mentioning of the spear is accurate along historical lines because back then, the idea of warfare was relatively new and weapons were simple
THE ILIAD BOOK 9