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Transcript

Socrates is trying to continues his point about justice, that is good and that it is the highest highest class, however Gloucon does not. He argues it is the lowest.

  • Socrates then points out when justice comes into a society setting
  • he explains that justice is the virtue of an indivigual and the state
  • he then begins to describe the creation process of the state and when justice comes it
  • that "one gives, and the other recieves" ; bring in nessecities (food, shelter, clothing) but there must be trade for outside resources and with trade a marketplace and then retail
  • Gloucon and Socrates almost come to a conclusion that justice is born in the dealings with all of the peoples
  • however, it is when luxeries begin for the "city of pigs" and more people arrive, then borders need to be expanded which leads to war and warriors
  • army = justice = back to ideas of politics from book 1

Justice should be placed in the first class of goods: "Things that we desire only for their consequences, such as physical training and medical treatment," which do us good but we regard them as disagreeable.

"They say that to do justice is by nature good. to suffer injustice evil. but that the evil is greater than the good. So when men have both done and suffered injustice and have had experience of both, not being able to avoid one and obtain the other they think that they had better agree upon themselves to have neither."

Thomas Hobbes believes that all men are born evil.

  • a man's first thought is injustice. it is not until the second thought does he think to do the right thing.

Thank you for your attention!

Socrate's view point

Justice is the third class of goods: the highest class, "which he would be happy desires both for their own sake and for the sake of their results".

And one more thing...

Gloucon is willing the arguement but Socrates begins to take it back with the creation of the society and the calcualtion of when justice enters it.

What We Think

Thesis

Plato's: The Republic Book II

Glaucon's Point of View

  • They view justice as a necessary evil, which we allow ourselves to suffer in order to avoid the greater evil that would befall us if we did away with it.
  • Justice stems from human weakness and vulnerability.
  • Since we can all suffer from each other’s injustices, we make a social contract agreeing to be just to one another.

Origin of Laws & Mutual Covenants

  • Which is ordained by law is termed by them lawful and just.
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